From MAILER-DAEMON Mon Mar 31 10:20:25 2003 Date: 31 Mar 2003 10:20:25 -0500 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA Message-ID: <1049124025@psc.edu> X-IMAP: 1036699202 0000000036 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From jheffner@psc.edu Thu Nov 7 14:59:19 2002 -0500 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA7JxIbf011045 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:59:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA7JxINt006655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:59:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gA7JxIe7006654; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:59:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:59:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200211071959.gA7JxIe7006654@mailer1.psc.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@mailer.psc.edu using -f To: jheffner@psc.edu From: majordomo@psc.edu Subject: Welcome to mtu Reply-To: majordomo@psc.edu Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 -- Welcome to the mtu mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe mtu or from another account, besides John Heffner : unsubscribe mtu John Heffner If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. Welcome to the mtu mailing list! Purpose of this mailing list: This mailing list is for people working on improving the Path MTU Discovery Algorithm and pushing up MTU in the operational Internet. From owner-mtu@psc.edu Fri Nov 8 16:38:26 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA8LcQ3S018664 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:38:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA8LcFig024074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:38:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gA8LcFSC024073 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:38:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (MATHIS.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.68.229]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA8LcEif024069 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gA8McCB01058 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:38:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:38:12 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Path MSS discovery draft posted Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Please checkout: http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/draft-mathis-MSS-discovery.txt This is the very first publication of an algorithm that takes a whole new approach to MTU discovery. Please read and comment. This document is NOT an IETF document. Thanks, --MM-- ---------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 ---------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Fri Nov 8 20:55:37 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA91tb3S019305 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gA91tPig026215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gA91tP9D026214 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:55:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web13003.mail.yahoo.com (web13003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.13]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id gA91tOif026210 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:55:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20021109015524.15746.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.67.101.5] by web13003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:55:24 PST Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:55:24 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: Path MSS discovery draft posted To: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Hi Matt, Very interesting document; I have many thoughts - particularly in terms of adaptation for tunneling protocols. One question I have for now, however - have you considered possible interactions with ECN? Fred Templin ospery67@yahoo.com --- Matt Mathis wrote: > > Please checkout: http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/draft-mathis-MSS-discovery.txt > > This is the very first publication of an algorithm that takes a whole new > approach to MTU discovery. Please read and comment. > > This document is NOT an IETF document. > > Thanks, > --MM-- > ---------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 > http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 > ---------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 11 09:21:55 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABELtFm004898 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:21:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABELbXC022603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gABELbCH022602 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:21:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-101.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.101]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABELaXB022597 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gABFLJO02984 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:21:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:21:19 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: Path MSS discovery draft posted In-Reply-To: <20021109015524.15746.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 I hadn't thought about ECN. There are several awkward congestion control issues which may require more specification in the draft. Are you worried that changing the MSS changes you probability of marking? This is true, however it makes my overall performance MTU invariant. As long as TCP stays within a reasonable window in packets, the expected data rate does not depend on MTU. This is a rather slick property of making the marking/drop probability positional to segment size. Thanks, --MM-- ---------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 ---------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Fred Templin wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > Very interesting document; I have many thoughts - particularly in > terms of adaptation for tunneling protocols. One question I have > for now, however - have you considered possible interactions with > ECN? > > Fred Templin > ospery67@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 11 11:25:53 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABGPrFm005357 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABGPXB8024356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gABGPW7s024355 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:25:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from niwot.scd.ucar.edu (niwot.scd.ucar.edu [128.117.8.223]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABGPVB7024351 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from Chilmark (scd11-12.scd.ucar.edu [128.117.11.12]) by niwot.scd.ucar.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11399 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:25:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:24:56 -0700 From: "Peter O'Neil" To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: MSS Initiative site Message-ID: <240136938.1037006696@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 All: This site and paper are receiving some attention on /. today. http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymzh666/mss/ http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymzh666/mss/lisa.html Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 11 12:02:20 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABH2JFm005463 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABH28B8024769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gABH28DZ024768 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:02:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (MATHIS.WV.CC.cmu.edu [128.2.75.81]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gABH27B7024764 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:02:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gABI26S03476 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:02:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: MSS Initiative site In-Reply-To: <240136938.1037006696@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 tI added this link to my MTU page.... The cool thing are that the two efforts are really complementary. They are "fixing" the problem in the short term, we will fix it it longer term. Thanks, --MM-- On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Peter O'Neil wrote: > > All: > > This site and paper are receiving some > attention on /. today. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymzh666/mss/ > > http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymzh666/mss/lisa.html > > Peter > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > -- --MM-- ---------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 ---------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 11 19:04:28 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAC04SFm006894 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAC04EP0029416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:04:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAC04EMc029415 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:04:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web13008.mail.yahoo.com (web13008.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.18]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id gAC04COx029410 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:04:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20021112000412.78791.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.67.101.5] by web13008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:04:12 PST Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:04:12 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: Path MSS discovery draft posted To: mtu@psc.edu Cc: osprey67@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Hi Matt, Sorry for the delay; it's been a busy day - comments below: --- Matt Mathis wrote: > > I hadn't thought about ECN. There are several awkward congestion control > issues which may require more specification in the draft. > > Are you worried that changing the MSS changes you probability of marking? > This is true, however it makes my overall performance MTU invariant. As long > as TCP stays within a reasonable window in packets, the expected data rate does > not depend on MTU. Yes, that was one concern I had. The other aspect of ECN I was curious about (given my very limited comprehension of RFC 3168) was whether one of the ECN "codepoints" could be co-opted for the purpose of helping the MSS probe algorithm converge more quickly and incur less packet loss. The codepoint could be called something like "Coarse Scan Limit Reached". I was thinking that "informed" routers could mark MSS probes that have reached the "coarse scan" limit for either the incoming or outgoing link so that the next probe could initiate the "fine scan" algorithm - thus saving packet loss for a "coarse scan" packet that is sure to be lost. Does this make any practical sense? > This is a rather slick property of making the marking/drop probability > positional to segment size. > > Thanks, > --MM-- Regards, Fred Templin osprey67@yahoo.com > ---------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 > http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 > ---------------------------------------------- > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Fred Templin wrote: > > > > > Hi Matt, > > > > Very interesting document; I have many thoughts - particularly in > > terms of adaptation for tunneling protocols. One question I have > > for now, however - have you considered possible interactions with > > ECN? > > > > Fred Templin > > ospery67@yahoo.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Fri Nov 15 17:58:10 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAFMw9S1006251 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAFMvSLZ004383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:57:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAFMvS8P004382 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:57:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-101.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.101]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAFMvRLY004377 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAFNvLH07037 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:57:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Cool early implementation results! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Kevin Lahey has a preliminary implementation of Path MSS Discovery for netBSD! It isn't a complete implementation, but works well enough to see the basic operation. Check out his web page at: http://www.patheticgeek.net/~kml/mmtu/ He has a netBSD patch file for people who want to tinker and a sample TCP trace. The really cool thing about the trace is that as it switches to larger MTUs, TCP speeds up. Progress! --MM-- ---------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis W:412.268.3319 http://www.psc.edu/~mathis H:412.654.7529 ---------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 18 11:44:05 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAIGi5qh024097 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAIGhQ6h003074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:43:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAIGhQNB003073 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:43:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (dhcp-204-42-70-196.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [204.42.70.196]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAIGhP6g003069 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAIHhPF08337 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:43:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:43:25 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 Everyone interested in MTU issues is invited to an informal dinner BoF at the IETF. The agenda is to meet other people interested in MTU issues and to brainstorm about path MTU discovery. Please meet at 1730 Wednesday on the Garden level, near the top of the escalators from the lobby. Thanks --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 18 20:01:04 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ114qh026167 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:01:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ0xBI9007403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAJ0xBmv007402 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [213.172.48.142]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ0x5I8007397 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from consulintel02 ([204.42.71.231]) by consulintel.es ([127.0.0.1]) with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v6.0.7.R) for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:04:05 +0100 Message-ID: <032201c28f67$8c8efde0$e7472acc@consulintel.es> From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" To: Cc: "Tim Chown" References: Subject: Re: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:03:53 +0100 Organization: Consulintel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MDRemoteIP: 204.42.71.231 X-Return-Path: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: mtu@psc.edu Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 I'm definitively interested in this meeting, but couldn't do on Wednesday for dinner. May be we can move to Tuesday for lunch or dinner ? Of course, it depends on the rest of the people that plans to attend ! Regards, Jordi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Mathis" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday > > Everyone interested in MTU issues is invited to an informal dinner BoF at the > IETF. > > The agenda is to meet other people interested in MTU issues and to brainstorm > about path MTU discovery. > > > Please meet at 1730 Wednesday on the Garden level, near the top of the > escalators from the lobby. > > Thanks > --MM-- > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis > Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 > ------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > *********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com Interested in participating or sponsoring ? Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 18 20:06:15 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ16Fqh026177 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ15kI9007467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:05:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAJ15kBD007466 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:05:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [213.172.48.142]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ15iI8007460 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from consulintel02 ([204.42.71.231]) by consulintel.es ([127.0.0.1]) with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v6.0.7.R) for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:10:43 +0100 Message-ID: <037f01c28f68$79c4da30$e7472acc@consulintel.es> From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" To: Cc: "Tim Chown" References: <032201c28f67$8c8efde0$e7472acc@consulintel.es> Subject: Re: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:10:37 +0100 Organization: Consulintel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MDRemoteIP: 204.42.71.231 X-Return-Path: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: mtu@psc.edu Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 Sorry, I'm starting to mix-up my agenda. Tuesday lunch is also occupied with a 6bone meeting ... Jordi ----- Original Message ----- From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" To: Cc: "Tim Chown" Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 2:03 AM Subject: Re: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday > > I'm definitively interested in this meeting, but couldn't do on Wednesday for dinner. > > May be we can move to Tuesday for lunch or dinner ? > > Of course, it depends on the rest of the people that plans to attend ! > > Regards, > Jordi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Mathis" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 6:43 PM > Subject: Informal IETF BoF/Diner Wednesday > > > > > > Everyone interested in MTU issues is invited to an informal dinner BoF at the > > IETF. > > > > The agenda is to meet other people interested in MTU issues and to brainstorm > > about path MTU discovery. > > > > > > Please meet at 1730 Wednesday on the Garden level, near the top of the > > escalators from the lobby. > > > > Thanks > > --MM-- > > ------------------------------------------- > > Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis > > Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 > > ------------------------------------------- > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > > > > > *********************************** > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit > 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: > http://www.ipv6-es.com > Interested in participating or sponsoring ? > Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > > > *********************************** > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit > 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: > http://www.ipv6-es.com > Interested in participating or sponsoring ? > Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es > > *********************************** Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit 12-14 May 2003 - Soon on line at: http://www.ipv6-es.com Interested in participating or sponsoring ? Contact us at ipv6@consulintel.es ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 18 21:56:48 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ2umqh026421 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ2u8I9008087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAJ2u8I6008086 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (dhcp-204-42-70-196.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [204.42.70.196]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ2u6I8008082 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:56:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAJ3u0J14593 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:56:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:56:00 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: Informal IETF BoF/Dinner Wednesday In-Reply-To: <037f01c28f68$79c4da30$e7472acc@consulintel.es> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Wednesday dinner is the only time that fits for me. The key people are at already the IETF: John Heffner, Kevin Lahey, Peter O'Neil, Raghurama Reddy and me. If you find any one of us, we can steer you to the others. Several of us will be wearing the "geeky T-shirts" (Red on light blue-green) on Tuesday - we should be easy to find. Thanks, --MM-- On Tue, 19 Nov 2002, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > > Sorry, I'm starting to mix-up my agenda. > > Tuesday lunch is also occupied with a 6bone meeting ... > > Jordi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Nov 18 22:50:57 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ3ovqh026533 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ3oRI9008360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAJ3oRos008359 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:50:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (dhcp-204-42-70-196.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [204.42.70.196]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAJ3oQI8008355 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4oOm21243; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:24 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Hugh LaMaster cc: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: draft-mathis-MSS-discovery.txt -- MTU vs. MSS (RESEND) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 Yes, our perspective on MSS vs MTU changed during the writing and we did not quite get it all straightened out. Segment size is the TCP payload size, so we are adding on headers to get to the required path MTU. Some of the details are confused. It will be fixed on the next iteration. So far the implementors have been able to figure out what was meant... Thanks, --MM-- On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Hugh LaMaster wrote: > > > WRT "Table 1" --- > > A) The most common MTU sizes that we configure on router interfaces are > 4470 and 9180, so, the corresponding MSS values I would expect to see > in the table. Other common large MTU's would be 18020 (the largest > MTU that cisco supports on most ATM and POS interfaces) and 57344 > (typical HIPPI MTU). > > B) Also, I'm confused by the use of MSS in the document -- I know there > may be an inconsistency in usage out there, but, normally, wouldn't > MSS be the maximum amount of *data* in a *TCP* (or UDP) transmission -- > for a 1500 byte interface IP MTU, that would typically be 1500-36 = 1464 > or whatever MSS, depending (on options). > > At least, I always thought the MSS in the TCP algorithm/performance > papers seems to be stated as the data segment size, not the total IP > packet size (MTU), or, the layer two (e.g. Ethernet) frame size. > It appears that the section "Probe Method" is consistent with what > I just wrote, but, under "probe strategy" I find myself confused > by the statement: > > " select one of the common default MSSs: 576, 1280, or 1500 Bytes." > > (these sound like common MTU's to me) as well as the other suggested > values. > > Regards, > Hugh LaMaster > NASA NAS/NREN > > > ============================================================================== > Hugh LaMaster, M/S 233-21, Email: lamaster@nas.nasa.gov > NASA Ames Research Center Or: lamaster@nren.nasa.gov > Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000 Or: lamaster@kinkajou.arc.nasa.gov > Phone: 650/604-1056 Disc: Unofficial, personal *opinion*. > ============================================================================== > -- --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Wed Nov 20 15:24:44 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKKOiIP003422 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKKNim5006462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAKKNiDj006461 for mtu-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from dexter.psc.edu (dexter.psc.edu [128.182.61.232]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKKNhm5006457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from dexter.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKKNgIP003415 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id gAKKNgDD003412 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dexter.psc.edu: jheffner owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:23:42 -0500 (EST) From: John Heffner To: Subject: linux implementation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 I've just hacked out a prelim patch for Linux (2.4.19). Following Kevin's lead, I've posted it on a small web page: . I will probably be adding features and making it more correct (um, less buggy) in the near future. I may post some traces there soon, too. -John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Wed Nov 20 17:19:07 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKMJ6IP003904 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKMIdm5007611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAKMIda4007610 for mtu-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:18:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (dhcp-204-42-70-196.ietf55.ops.ietf.org [204.42.70.196]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAKMIdm4007606 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAKNIdl06019 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:18:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:18:39 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Linux implementation of path MSS discovery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Thanks John! This is truly cool stuff. I would like to point out that Kevin and John have totally independent implementations, under different license rules. I have added a link from the main page. The next step will be to update the draft ID to: - Include observations and lessons from the implementers - Start folding in parts of RFC1191 with an eye to being a successor, rather than a replacement. John, Kevin and I will be at the MTU dinner tonight, with just a few of our friends. Come and join us! Thanks, --MM-- On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, John Heffner wrote: > > I've just hacked out a prelim patch for Linux (2.4.19). > > Following Kevin's lead, I've posted it on a small web page: > . > > I will probably be adding features and making it more correct (um, less > buggy) in the near future. I may post some traces there soon, too. > > -John > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > -- --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Wed Nov 20 21:12:48 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAL2CmIP004878 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAL2CJm5009470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAL2CJKI009469 for mtu-outgoing; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:12:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web13003.mail.yahoo.com (web13003.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.13]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id gAL2CIm4009465 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:12:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20021121021217.32528.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.100.124.219] by web13003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:12:17 PST Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: Linux implementation of path MSS discovery To: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Matt, Thanks for setting up the dinner. I'd like to talk more about dynamic path MTU discovery for automatic tunnels at some point. Please check my new draft when you get a chance: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-templin-v6v4-ndisc-01.txt The main idea is to have an after-market deployable mechanism that can allow automatic tunnel encapsulators/decapsulators to participate in path MTU discovery. The mechanism detects whether both ends are participating in the protocol and only runs if the handshake is completed. The penalty is extra state for neighbor cache entries, whihc presents a scaling issue for routers - but one that I think can be quantified. Fred Templin osprey67@yahoo.com --- Matt Mathis wrote: > > Thanks John! This is truly cool stuff. I would like to point out that Kevin > and John have totally independent implementations, under different license > rules. > > I have added a link from the main page. > > The next step will be to update the draft ID to: > - Include observations and lessons from the implementers > - Start folding in parts of RFC1191 with an eye to being a successor, rather > than a replacement. > > John, Kevin and I will be at the MTU dinner tonight, with just a few of our > friends. Come and join us! > > Thanks, > --MM-- > > > On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, John Heffner wrote: > > > > > I've just hacked out a prelim patch for Linux (2.4.19). > > > > Following Kevin's lead, I've posted it on a small web page: > > . > > > > I will probably be adding features and making it more correct (um, less > > buggy) in the near future. I may post some traces there soon, too. > > > > -John > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu > > > > -- > --MM-- > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis > Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 > ------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. > Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. > For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Tue Nov 26 13:51:49 2002 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAQIpnnT017984 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:51:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAQIp9tA004039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:51:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id gAFHVGBX006197 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:31:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from patheticgeek.net (adsl-216-101-184-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.101.184.46]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id gAFHV4lt006055 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 2065 invoked by uid 153); 15 Nov 2002 17:25:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20021115172542.2063.qmail@patheticgeek.net> From: "Kevin Lahey" To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: Path MSS discovery draft posted In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Mathis of "Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:38:12 EST." Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:25:42 -0800 Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 In message , Matt Mathis writes: > >Please checkout: http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/draft-mathis-MSS-discovery.txt > >This is the very first publication of an algorithm that takes a whole new >approach to MTU discovery. Please read and comment. I hacked up a quick and dirty patch to NetBSD-current to implement the most basic parts of this proposal. It manages to create the probes and increase MTU in response to successful probes, but that's about as far as it goes. Plus, it is likely (certain?) to crash your system. In any case, I wanted to get it out before I went to the IETF. Check out: http://www.patheticgeek.net/~kml/mmtu/ This includes the patch as well as a tcpdump showing it doing its stuff. Kevin kml@patheticgeek.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sun Jan 12 14:39:40 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0CJddX6017008 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:39:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0CJbdnT020449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:37:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h0CJbdW4020448 for mtu-outgoing; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:37:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-154.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.154]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h0CJbbnS020443 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:37:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0CKZB617335; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:35:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:35:11 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Thomas Narten , Erik Nordmark cc: Allison Mankin , Scott Bradner , MTU list Subject: 56 IETF plans Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Allison reminded me to start on plans for the IETF. First a status rehash: we have two independent implementations of the current draft Internet-Draft. From lessons of these implementations we expect to produce new draft in time for the 56 IETF cutoff (approx Mar 1). We would like to request an IETF BoF. The primary agenda topic would be putting this work on some WG agenda - either chartering a new WG, or adding it to the agenda of an existing WG. We would include a quick overview of the work to date, but not a substantial technical discussion. At the moment the principle people are all maxed out on trying to wrap up existing projects. We expect to have sufficient time in February to complete the new draft and other details. There have been several updates to my web pages: http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sat Feb 8 22:55:05 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h193t5lY023767 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h193rC2u005750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:53:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h193rC5S005749 for mtu-outgoing; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:53:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-78.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.78]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h193rB2t005745 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:53:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h194qeC01966; Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:52:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:52:40 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Thomas Narten , Erik Nordmark cc: Allison Mankin , Scott Bradner , MTU list Subject: Re: 56 IETF plans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Do I need to do something other than this note to get a BOF on the official agenda? Who is responsible for requesting the slot from the secretariat? Which of you will be our primary IESG contact? I did not receive any acknowledgment of my prior note. Thanks, --MM-- On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Matt Mathis wrote: > Allison reminded me to start on plans for the IETF. > > First a status rehash: we have two independent implementations of the current > draft Internet-Draft. From lessons of these implementations we expect to > produce new draft in time for the 56 IETF cutoff (approx Mar 1). > > We would like to request an IETF BoF. The primary agenda topic would be > putting this work on some WG agenda - either chartering a new WG, or > adding it to the agenda of an existing WG. > > We would include a quick overview of the work to date, but not a substantial > technical discussion. > > At the moment the principle people are all maxed out on trying to wrap up > existing projects. We expect to have sufficient time in February to complete > the new draft and other details. > > There have been several updates to my web pages: > http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU > > Thanks, > --MM-- > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis > Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 > ------------------------------------------- > > -- --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sat Feb 15 13:36:17 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1FIaHkZ017557 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1FIZa4e012412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1FIZasb012411 for mtu-outgoing; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from tesla.psc.edu (tesla.psc.edu [128.182.61.233]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1FIZZ4e012407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from tesla.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1FIZQvl017909; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id h1FIZQUH017906; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: tesla.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:26 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Scott Bradner cc: , , , Subject: DRAFT Agenda for the pMTU discovery BOF In-Reply-To: <200302121453.h1CErP3w001956@newdev.harvard.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Please let me know if I should make any adjustments, etc. before sending it to the secretariat and the wider IETF. Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- BOF Description This BOF is to introduce a new path MTU discovery algorithm and discuss IETF venues that might be used to complete the work. This new algorithm does not rely on ICMP or other messages from the network (so it is not subject to the problems described in RFC2923), instead it finds the proper MTU by starting with relatively small packets and searching upwards by probing with test packets. Key portions of the algorithm need to be implemented in the transport layer, and in particular, any lost probes should not be treated as congestion signals. For this reason, it can be argued that this work belongs in the TSV area. Many of the unresolved design issues pertain to the efficient use of shared state between concurrent and successive connections to the same destination. The complexities of the this aspect of the algorithm are due to the huge technological breadth and subtleties of the delivery semantics associated with the network and lower layers. For this reason, it can be argued that this work belongs in the INT area. In any case there is already a preliminary ID and two independent prototype implementations. See http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/ Agenda: Background (30 Minutes total) - Quick overview of the problem - Quick overview of the work-to-date - Inventory technologies harmed by RFC1191 problems. How can we best complete the work? (30 Minutes) (Collecting advice for the IESG) - Is this issue currently relevant to the IETF? - pros and cons of INT vs TSV areas - pros and cons of new vs existing WG IESG contacts: Allison Mankin Scott Bradner Thomas Narten Erik Nordmark Key participants: Matt Mathis , John Heffner , Kevin Lahey , Peter O'Neil , Fred Templin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sat Feb 22 21:32:23 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1N2WNVw013238 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1N2VhF5025627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:31:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1N2Vh6D025626 for mtu-outgoing; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:31:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1N2VfF5025622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:31:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=psg.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18mlvL-000IxG-00; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:31:27 -0800 To: Matt Mathis cc: Scott Bradner , Erik.Nordmark@sun.com, narten@us.ibm.com, mtu@psc.edu, mankin@psg.com Subject: Re: DRAFT Agenda for the pMTU discovery BOF In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Mathis of "Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:26 EST." Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:31:26 -0800 From: Allison Mankin Message-Id: Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 Matt, It needs to cite the i-d in the description/agenda, not just the web-page. And give the mailing list and how to join Sorry for the latency of the answer. Now you have to HUSTLE this request in ASAP on Monday. Please be sure to cc the ADs when sending it in too. Not necessary to debate INT vs. TSV :) - best use the BOF time by staying technical and thinking on the tractability of the engineering and evaluation tasks. Anyway we ADs feel if ready the work is TSV with INT help, and that it would be a WG, not a part of something else. So inline below at ### I've suggested changes to your agenda. Allison > > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:35:26 EST > To: Scott Bradner > cc: , , , > > From: Matt Mathis > Subject: DRAFT Agenda for the pMTU discovery BOF W> > Please let me know if I should make any adjustments, etc. before sending it to > the secretariat and the wider IETF. > > Thanks, > --MM-- > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis > Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 > ------------------------------------------- > BOF Description > > This BOF is to introduce a new path MTU discovery algorithm and > discuss IETF venues that might be used to complete the work. > > This new algorithm does not rely on ICMP or other messages from the network (so > it is not subject to the problems described in RFC2923), instead it finds > the proper MTU by starting with relatively small packets and searching > upwards by probing with test packets. > > Key portions of the algorithm need to be implemented in the transport layer, > and in particular, any lost probes should not be treated as congestion > signals. For this reason, it can be argued that this work belongs in the TSV > area. > > Many of the unresolved design issues pertain to the efficient use of shared > state between concurrent and successive connections to the same destination. > The complexities of the this aspect of the algorithm are due to the huge > technological breadth and subtleties of the delivery semantics associated with > the network and lower layers. For this reason, it can be argued that this work > belongs in the INT area. > > In any case there is already a preliminary ID and two independent > prototype implementations. See http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/ > > Agenda: > Background (30 Minutes total) ### Suggest making this 40 minutes > - Quick overview of the problem > - Quick overview of the work-to-date > - Inventory technologies harmed by RFC1191 problems. > How can we best complete the work? (30 Minutes) > (Collecting advice for the IESG) > - Is this issue currently relevant to the IETF? > ### Drop - pros and cons of INT vs TSV areas ### Add: - Is this work tractable within IETF? How can we do ### operations impact and deployment evaluation needed? > ### Drop - pros and cons of new vs existing WG ### Stay ### technical. ADs ### will charter a ### a WG if all is well. > > IESG contacts: > Allison Mankin > Scott Bradner > Thomas Narten > Erik Nordmark > > Key participants: > Matt Mathis , > John Heffner , > Kevin Lahey , > Peter O'Neil , > Fred Templin > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sun Feb 23 21:58:02 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1O2w2tS019874 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1O2vLGe005977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1O2vLDg005976 for mtu-outgoing; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-134.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.134]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1O2vJGd005972 for ; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:57:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1O2unC09916; Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:56:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:56:48 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: internet-drafts@ietf.org cc: Allison Mankin , Scott Bradner , MTU list Subject: New ID: draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1233087171-971306938-1046055408=:9905" Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1233087171-971306938-1046055408=:9905 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Please publish the attached Internet-Draft. (Also availible at http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/papers/draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt ) Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---1233087171-971306938-1046055408=:9905 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt" DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIE1hdHQgTWF0aGlzDQogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICBKb2huIEhlZmZuZXINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIFBTQw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEtldmluIExhaGV5DQogICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICBGcmVlbGFuY2UNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEZlYiAyMywg MjAwMw0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFBhY2tldGl6YXRpb24gTGF5ZXIg UGF0aCBNVFUgRGlzY292ZXJ5DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgZHJh ZnQtbWF0aGlzLXBscG10dWQtMDAudHh0DQoNClN0YXR1cyBvZiB0aGlzIE1l bW8NCg0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBhbiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBh bmQgaXMgaW4gZnVsbCBjb25mb3JtYW5jZSB3aXRoDQogICBhbGwgcHJvdmlz aW9ucyBvZiBTZWN0aW9uIDEwIG9mIFJGQzIwMjYuDQoNCiAgIEludGVybmV0 LURyYWZ0cyBhcmUgd29ya2luZyBkb2N1bWVudHMgb2YgdGhlIEludGVybmV0 IEVuZ2luZWVyaW5nDQogICBUYXNrIEZvcmNlIChJRVRGKSwgaXRzIGFyZWFz LCBhbmQgaXRzIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXBzLiBOb3RlIHRoYXQgb3RoZXINCiAg IGdyb3VwcyBtYXkgYWxzbyBkaXN0cmlidXRlIHdvcmtpbmcgZG9jdW1lbnRz IGFzIEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cy4NCg0KICAgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzIGFy ZSBkcmFmdCBkb2N1bWVudHMgdmFsaWQgZm9yIGEgbWF4aW11bSBvZiBzaXgg bW9udGhzDQogICBhbmQgbWF5IGJlIHVwZGF0ZWQsIHJlcGxhY2VkLCBvciBv YnNvbGV0ZWQgYnkgb3RoZXIgZG9jdW1lbnRzIGF0IGFueQ0KICAgdGltZS4g SXQgaXMgaW5hcHByb3ByaWF0ZSB0byB1c2UgSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnRzIGFz IHJlZmVyZW5jZQ0KICAgbWF0ZXJpYWwgb3IgdG8gY2l0ZSB0aGVtIG90aGVy IHRoYW4gYXMgIndvcmsgaW4gcHJvZ3Jlc3MuIg0KDQogICBUaGUgbGlzdCBv ZiBjdXJyZW50IEludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0cyBjYW4gYmUgYWNjZXNzZWQgYXQN CiAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaWV0Zi8xaWQtYWJzdHJhY3RzLnR4 dA0KDQogICBUaGUgbGlzdCBvZiBJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBTaGFkb3cgRGly ZWN0b3JpZXMgY2FuIGJlIGFjY2Vzc2VkIGF0DQogICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL3NoYWRvdy5odG1sLg0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdA0KDQogICBUaGlzIGRv Y3VtZW50IGRlc2NyaWJlcyBhIG5ldyBQYWNrZXRpemF0aW9uIExheWVyIE1U VSBwcm9iaW5nDQogICBhbGdvcml0aG0gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IHN1YmplY3Qg dG8gdGhlIHByb2JsZW1zIGFzc29jaWF0ZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUNCiAgIGN1cnJl bnQgcGF0aCBNVFUgZGlzY292ZXJ5IGFsZ29yaXRobXMgW1JGQzExOTEsIFJG QzE5ODEsIFJGQzI5MjNdLg0KICAgVGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgc3RyYXRlZ3kgb2Yg dGhlIG5ldyBhbGdvcml0aG0gaXMgdG8gc3RhcnQgd2l0aCBhIHNtYWxsDQog ICBNVFUgYW5kIHByb2JlIHVwd2FyZCwgdGVzdGluZyBzdWNjZXNzaXZlbHkg bGFyZ2VyIE1UVXMgYnkgcHJvYmluZw0KICAgd2l0aCBzaW5nbGUgcGFja2V0 cy4gIElmIHRoZSBwcm9iZSBpcyBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkgZGVsaXZlcmVkLCB0 aGVuDQogICB0aGUgTVRVIGlzIHJhaXNlZC4gIElmIHRoZSBwcm9iZSBpcyBs b3N0LCBpdCBpcyB0cmVhdGVkIGFzIGFuIE1UVQ0KICAgbGltaXRhdGlvbiBh bmQgbm90IGFzIGEgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBzaWduYWwuDQoNClRhYmxlIG9mIENv bnRlbnRzDQoNCiAgIFRCRA0KDQoxLiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24NCg0KICAgUGF0 aCBNVFUgZGlzY292ZXJ5IChQTVRVRCkgYXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIFJGQzEx OTEgYW5kIFJGQzE5ODENCg0KDQoNCk1hdGhpcywgZXQgYWwgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBbUGFn ZSAxXQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IEV4cGlyZXMgQXVnIDIw MDMgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEZlYiAyMywgMjAwMw0K DQoNCiAgIGRlcGVuZHMgb24gSUNNUCBtZXNzYWdlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSBuZXR3 b3JrLiAgRm9yIGEgdmFyaWV0eSBvZiByZWFzb25zLA0KICAgdGhlc2UgbWVz c2FnZXMgbWF5IG5vdCBiZSBjb3JyZWN0bHkgZ2VuZXJhdGVkIG9yIHByb3Bh Z2F0ZWQgYmFjayB0bw0KICAgdGhlIGVuZCBob3N0LCBjYXVzaW5nIGNvbm5l Y3Rpb24gZmFpbHVyZSBbUkZDMjkyM10uIFRoaXMgZHJhZnQNCiAgIHByb3Bv c2VzIGEgcm9idXN0IG1ldGhvZCBvZiBwZXJmb3JtaW5nIHBhdGggTVRVIGRp c2NvdmVyeSBmcm9tIFRDUA0KICAgd2hpY2ggZG9lcyBub3QgZGVwZW5kIG9u IG1lc3NhZ2VzIGZyb20gdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsuICBUaGVzZSBwcm9jZWR1cmVz DQogICBzaG91bGQgYmUgYXBwbGljYWJsZSB0byBvdGhlciB0cmFuc3BvcnQt IG9yIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uLWxldmVsDQogICBQYWNrZXRpemF0aW9uIHByb3Rv Y29scyB3aGljaCBpbXBsZW1lbnQgc2ltaWxhciBmZWF0dXJlcy4NCg0KICAg VGhlIGxvd2VyIGxheWVycyBuZWVkIG9ubHkgdG8gYmUgY29uc2lzdGVudCBh Ym91dCB3aGF0IHBhY2tldCBzaXplcw0KICAgYXJlIGFjY2VwdGFibGUuICBN ZWRpYSB0aGF0IGhhcyBwYXJhbWV0cmljIGxpbWl0YXRpb24gKGUuZy4gTVRV DQogICBib3VuZHMgZHVlIHRvIGxpbWl0ZWQgY2xvY2sgc3RhYmlsaXR5KSBt dXN0IGluY2x1ZGUgZXhwbGljaXQNCiAgIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgdG8gY29uc2lz dGVudGx5IHJlamVjdCBwYWNrZXRzIHRoYXQgbWlnaHQgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIGJl DQogICBub25kZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljYWxseSBkZWxpdmVyZWQuDQoNCiAgIENs YXNzaWMgSUNNUC1sYXllciBQTVRVRCwgd2hlbiB3b3JraW5nIHByb3Blcmx5 LCBjYW4gc3BlZWQgdGhlDQogICBkaXNjb3Zlcnkgb2YgdGhlIGNvcnJlY3Qg UE1UVS4NCg0KICAgSW4gYWRkaXRpb24sIHBhY2tldGl6YXRpb24tbGF5ZXIg UE1UVUQgKFBMUE1UVUQpIGNhbiBiZSBleHRlbmRlZCB3aXRoDQogICBoZXVy aXN0aWNzIHRvIHVzZSBvdGhlciBjcml0ZXJpYSB0byBzZWxlY3QgUE1UVS4g IEZvciBleGFtcGxlLCBvbiBhDQogICBwYXRoIHRoYXQgaXMgc28gY29uZ2Vz dGVkIHRoYXQgdGhlIGZhaXIgc2hhcmUgd2luZG93IGlzIG9ubHkgNSBLQiwN CiAgIFRDUCBtYXkgYmUgYmV0dGVyIGJlaGF2ZWQgd2l0aCA1MTItYnl0ZSBw YWNrZXRzIHRoYW4gd2l0aCAxNTAwLWJ5dGUNCiAgIHBhY2tldHMgc2luY2Ug d2l0aCB0aGUgbGFyZ2VyIHBhY2tldHMgdGhlIHdpbmRvdyB3b3VsZCBiZSB0 b28gc21hbGwNCiAgIHRvIHRyaWdnZXIgRmFzdCBSZXRyYW5zbWl0Lg0KDQog ICBQTFBNVFVEIGlzIGRlZmluZWQgYnkgdHdvIGluZGVwZW5kZW50IGFsZ29y aXRobXMuICBUaGUgInByb2JpbmcNCiAgIG1ldGhvZCIgd2hpY2ggaXMgd2ls bCBzcGVjaWZpZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCwgZGVmaW5lcyB0aGUgbWFu bmVyDQogICBpbiB3aGljaCBhIGNhbmRpZGF0ZSBNVFUgbWF5IGJlIHZhbGlk YXRlZCBvciBpbnZhbGlkYXRlZC4gIFRoZQ0KICAgInByb2Jpbmcgc3RyYXRl Z3kiIGRlc2NyaWJlcyBhIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhcHByb2FjaCB0byBjaG9vc2lu ZyBNVFVzIHRvDQogICBwcm9iZS4gIEl0IGlzIG9ubHkgbG9vc2VseSBkZXNj cmliZWQgaGVyZSBhbmQgaXMgc3ViamVjdCB0byBmdXR1cmUNCiAgIHJlc2Vh cmNoIGFuZCBpbXByb3ZlbWVudC4NCg0KICAgVGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgc3RyYXRl Z3kgaXMgdG8gc3RhcnQgd2l0aCBhIHNtYWxsIE1UVSBhbmQgcHJvYmUgdXB3 YXJkLA0KICAgdGVzdGluZyBzdWNjZXNzaXZlbHkgbGFyZ2VyIHNpemVzIGJ5 IHByb2Jpbmcgd2l0aCBzaW5nbGUgcGFja2V0cy4gIElmDQogICB0aGUgcHJv YmUgaXMgc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IGRlbGl2ZXJlZCwgdGhlbiB0aGUgTVRVIGlz IHJhaXNlZC4gIElmIHRoZQ0KICAgcHJvYmUgaXMgbG9zdCwgaXQgaXMgdHJl YXRlZCBhcyBhbiBNVFUgbGltaXRhdGlvbiBhbmQgbm90IGFzIGENCiAgIGNv bmdlc3Rpb24gc2lnbmFsLg0KDQoyLiBUT0RPIGxpc3QNCg0KICAgVGhpcyBJ bnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBpcyBhIHBhcnRpYWwgdXBkYXRlIG9mIGFuIGVhcmxp ZXIgaW5mb3JtYWxseQ0KICAgcHVibGlzaGVkIGRvY3VtZW50LiAgSXQgc3Rp bGwgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgcmV2aXNlZCB0bzoNCg0KDQogICAgbyAgIFJlc3Ry dWN0dXJlIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBhbmQgdXNlIHRoZSAicGFja2V0aXphdGlv biBsYXllciIgYW5kDQogICAgICAgICJuZXR3b3JrIGxheWVyIiB0ZXJtaW5v bG9neSBmcm9tIFJGQzExOTEsIHRvIG1ha2UgaXQgbGVzcyBUQ1ANCiAgICAg ICAgc3BlY2lmaWMuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KTWF0aGlzLCBldCBhbCAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFtQ YWdlIDJdDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgRXhwaXJlcyBBdWcg MjAwMyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgRmViIDIzLCAyMDAz DQoNCg0KICAgIG8gICBDb2xsZWN0IGFsbCBvZiB0aGUgVENQIHNwZWNpZmlj IGRldGFpbHMgaW50byBvbmUgc2VjdGlvbi4NCiAgICAgICAgRGVzY3JpYmUg dGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgcHJpbmNpcGxlcyB0aGF0IGFwcGx5IHRvIGFsbCB0cmFu c3BvcnQgcHJvrQ0KICAgICAgICB0b2NvbHMuDQoNCg0KICAgIG8gICBGb2xk IGFsbCBvZiBSRkMxMTkxLCBSRkMxOTgxIGFuZCByZWxhdGVkIGxvcmUgaW50 byB0aGlzIGRvY3WtDQogICAgICAgIG1lbnQuICAobG9uZ2VyIHRlcm0pDQoN Cg0KICAgIG8gICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHNob3VsZCB0aHJvdWdobHkgYWRk cmVzcyBwZXJzaXN0ZW50IHRpbWVvdXRzLg0KICAgICAgICBXaGVuIGEgVENQ IG9yIG90aGVyIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBjb25uZWN0aW9uIHN1ZGRlbmx5IGV4cGVy aWVuY2VzDQogICAgICAgIHBlcnNpc3RlbnQgdGltZW91dHMsIHNldmVyYWwg Y29tcGV0aW5nIHJlY292ZXJ5IHN0cmF0ZWdpZXMgbWlnaHQNCiAgICAgICAg YmUgaW52b2tlZCBhdCBlYWNoIGxldmVsIGluIHRoZSBwcm90b2NvbCBzdGFj aywgaW5jbHVkaW5nDQogICAgICAgIHJlc3RhcnRpbmcgbmV0d29yayBpbnRl cmZhY2VzLCB0cnlpbmcgYWx0ZXJuYXRlIGZpcnN0IGhvcA0KICAgICAgICBy b3V0ZXJzLCB1c2luZyBzbWFsbGVyIE1UVSdzLCBldGMuICBBbGwgb2YgdGhl c2UgaW5kaXZpZHVhbA0KICAgICAgICBzdHJhdGVnaWVzIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUg dGllZCBpbnRvIGEgc2luZ2xlIHVuaWZpZWQgbXVsdGktbGV2ZWwNCiAgICAg ICAgc3RyYXRlZ3kuDQoNCg0KICAgIG8gICBXZSBuZWVkIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVy IHJvYnVzdG5lc3MgdW5kZXIgYSBudW1iZXIgb2YgcGF0aG9sb2dpY2FsDQog ICAgICAgIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMsIHN1Y2ggYXMgd2hlbiB0aGVyZSBpcyBtdWx0 aS1wYXRoIHJvdXRpbmcgb3ZlciBwYXRocw0KICAgICAgICB3aXRoIGRpZmZl cmVudCBNVFVzLg0KDQogICAgICAgIFBsZWFzZSBzZW5kIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFu ZCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyB0byBtdHVAcHNjLmVkdS4NCg0KMy4gQ29udGV4dCBh bmQgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kNCg0KICAgVGhpcyBhbGdvcml0aG0gaXMgYnVpbHQg b24gdG9wIG9mIFRDUC4gIEl0J3MgYmFzaWMgZGVzaWduIGlzIHBvcnRhYmxl DQogICB0byBvdGhlciBwcm90b2NvbHMsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBhcHBsaWNhdGlv biBwcm90b2NvbHMgb3ZlciBSVFAgb3IgVURQDQogICBhbmQgU0NUUC4gIEl0 IGlzIGxpZ2h0IHdlaWdodCBlbm91Z2ggd2hlcmUgaXQgaXMgbm90IG1hbmRh dG9yeSB0aGF0DQogICBNU1MgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYmUgcGFzc2VkIGJldHdl ZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2l2ZSBUQ1AgY29ubmVjdGlvbnMgdG8gdGhlDQogICBzYW1l IHJlbW90ZSBob3N0LiAgSXQgZG9lcyBub3QgaW5jdXIgZXhjZXNzaXZlIG92 ZXJoZWFkIGZvciBlYWNoIGNvbq0NCiAgIG5lY3Rpb24gdG8gZGlzY292ZXIg dGhlIG1heGltdW0gTVRVIG9uIGl0cyBvd24uDQoNCiAgIEluIFRDUCBpdCBj YW4gYmUgaW5jb252ZW5pZW50IHRvIGNvbXB1dGUgdGhlIGxhcmdlc3QgcG9z c2libGUgc2VnbWVudA0KICAgc2l6ZSBnaXZlbiBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgTVRV IGR1ZSB0aGUgcHJlc2VuY2Ugb2YgdmFyaWFibGUgbGVuZ3RoDQogICBvcHRp b25zLCBzdWNoIGFzIFRDUCBTQUNLLiAgTVNTIHByb2JpbmcgbWluaW1pemVz IHRoaXMgcHJvYmxlbSBieQ0KICAgY2hvb3NpbmcgdGhlIHNlZ21lbnQgc2l6 ZXMgYW5kIHRlc3RpbmcgaWYgdGhlIGxpbmsgY2FuIHN1cHBvcnQgdHJhbnOt DQogICBtaXNzaW9uIG9mIHRoZSByZXN1bHRpbmcgSVAgcGFja2V0LiAgSXQg aXMgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgdGVzdA0KICAgcGFja2V0IGlzIHBh ZGRlZCB3aXRoIHRoZSBtYXhpbWFsIGxlbmd0aCB2YXJpYWJsZSBvcHRpb25z Lg0KDQogICBOb3RlIHRoYXQgd2UgdXNlIHRoZSB0ZXJtICBNYXhpbWFsIFRy YW5zbWlzc2lvbiBVbml0IHRvIG1lYW4gdGhlDQogICBsYXJnZXN0IHBvc3Np YmxlIElQIHBhY2tldC4gIGUuZy4gdGhlIGxhcmdlc3QgcG9zc2libGUgbGF5 ZXIgMiBwYXmtDQogICBsb2FkLiAgTW9zdCBsaW5rIGxheWVyIHN0YW5kYXJk cyBvcmdhbml6YXRpb25zIHVzZSBNVFUgdG8gbWVhbiB0aGUNCiAgIGxhcmdl c3QgcG9zc2libGUgdG90YWwgbGF5ZXIgdHdvIGZyYW1lLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcg dGhlIGxheWVyIHR3bw0KICAgaGVhZGVyLg0KDQogICBNU1MgcHJvYmluZyBj YW4gYmUgYWRhcHRlZCB0byBvdGhlciwgbm9uLVRDUCBwcm90b2NvbHMuICAg SW4NCg0KDQoNCk1hdGhpcywgZXQgYWwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBbUGFnZSAzXQ0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IEV4cGlyZXMgQXVnIDIwMDMgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEZlYiAyMywgMjAwMw0KDQoNCiAgIHBhcnRp Y3VsYXIsIE1TUyBwcm9iaW5nIGNhbiBiZSBhZGFwdGVkIHRvIHR1bm5lbGlu ZyBwcm90b2NvbHMgaWYgdGhlDQogICB0dW5uZWwgZW5kcG9pbnRzIGhhdmUg YSBtZWNoYW5pc20gdG8gZGV0ZWN0IGFuZCByZXBvcnQgbWlzc2luZyBwYWNr rQ0KICAgZXRzLg0KDQo0LiBQcm9iZSBtZXRob2QNCg0KICAgQSBuZXcgImNh bmRpZGF0ZSBNU1MiIGlzIHRlc3RlZCBieSBzZW5kaW5nIG9uZSAicHJvYmUg c2VnbWVudCIsIHdoaWNoDQogICBpcyBsYXJnZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgY3VycmVu dCBNU1MuDQoNCiAgIEJlZm9yZSBhIHByb2JlIGNhbiBiZSBzZW50IHRoZSBm b2xsb3dpbmcgY3JpdGVyaWEgTVVTVCBiZSBtZXQ6IFRoZXJlDQogICBjb25u ZWN0aW9uIE1VU1QgaGF2ZSBhdCBsZWFzdCB0aGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlIE1TUyB3 b3J0aCBvZiBwZW5kaW5nDQogICBkYXRhLiAgVGhlIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gTVVT VCBiZSB1c2luZyB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBNU1MsIGFzIGRlZmluZWQgYnkNCiAg IGhhdmluZyByZWNlaXZlZCBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbmUgYWNrbm93bGVkZ21lbnQg Zm9yIGEgcmVjZW50IG5vbi1wcm9iZQ0KICAgc2VnbWVudCBhdCB0aGUgY3Vy cmVudCBNU1MuICBUaGlzIGltcGxpY2l0bHkgbGltaXRzIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwg cHJvYmVzDQogICB0byBvbmNlIHBlciB0d28gcm91bmQgdHJpcHMuICBbTWFr aW5nIHRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG0gcm9idXN0IGluIHRoZQ0KICAgcHJlc2VuY2Ug b2YgbXVsdGktcGF0aCByb3V0aW5nIGlzIGxpa2VseSB0byByZXF1aXJlIGFu IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwNCiAgIFJUVC5dDQoNCiAgIEZhaWxlZCBhbmQgaW5jb25j bHVzaXZlIHByb2JlcyBtdXN0IGJlIG1vcmUgd2lkZWx5IHNwYWNlZCB0aGFu IHRoZQ0KICAgbm9ybWFsIEFJTUQgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBpbnRlcnZhbCBmb3Ig dGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgYXZlcmFnZSB3aW5kb3cgc2l6ZS4NCiAgIFRoaXMgaXMg ZW5mb3JjZWQgYnkga2VlcGluZyBhICJwcm9iZSBjb3VudCBkb3duIiB3aGlj aCBpcyBkZWNyZW1lbnRlZA0KICAgb24gZWFjaCBub24tcHJvYmUgc2VnbWVu dCBzZW50LiAgUHJvYmVzIE1VU1QgTk9UIGJlIHNlbnQgYmVmb3JlIHRoZQ0K ICAgcHJvYmUgY291bnRkb3duIHJlYWNoZXMgemVyby4NCg0KICAgQWZ0ZXIg YSBwcm9iZSBzZWdtZW50IGhhcyBiZWVuIHNlbnQgKG9mIHNpemUgY2FuZGlk YXRlIE1TUyksIHRoZSBzdWKtDQogICBzZXF1ZW50IHNlZ21lbnQocykgTVVT VCBiZSBzZW50IGFzIHRob3VnaCB0aGUgcHJvYmUgc2VnbWVudCB3YXMgbm90 DQogICBvdmVyIHNpemVkLiAgVGh1cyBpZiB0aGUgcHJvYmUgc2VnbWVudCBp cyBsb3N0LCBpdCB3aWxsIGxlYXZlIGEgaG9sZQ0KICAgdGhhdCBpcyBleGFj dGx5IG9uZSBjdXJyZW50IE1TUy4gIFdlIHJlZmVyIHRvIHRoaXMgcG90ZW50 aWFsIGhvbGUgYXMNCiAgIHRoZSBwcm9iZSBnYXAuICBOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhl IGxlbmd0aCBvZiB0aGUgcHJvYmUgc2VnbWVudCBpcyBkZXRlcq0NCiAgIG1p bmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBjYW5kaWRhdGUgTVNTIHVuZGVyIGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb24s IGJ1dCB0aGUgbGVuZ3RoIG9mIHRoZQ0KICAgcHJvYmUgZ2FwIGlzIHRoZSBj dXJyZW50IE1TUy4gIFtUaGlzIGhhcyBiZWVuIHNob3duIHRvIGJlIG1vcmUN CiAgIHJlc3RyaWN0aXZlIHRoYW4gbmVjZXNzYXJ5Ll0NCg0KICAgVGhlIGNh bmRpZGF0ZSBNU1MgTVVTVCBiZSBzdHJpY3RseSBzbWFsbGVyIHRoYW4gdGhy ZWUgdGltZXMgdGhlIGN1cq0NCiAgIHJlbnQgTVNTLiAgVGh1cyB0aGUgcHJv YmUgc2VnbWVudCBmdWxseSBjb3ZlcnMgYXQgbW9zdCBvbmUgc3Vic2VxdWVu dA0KICAgc2VnbWVudC4gIFRoZSBzZWNvbmQgc3Vic2VxdWVudCBzZWdtZW50 IGlzIGF0IG1vc3QgcGFydGlhbGx5IGNvdmVyZWQNCiAgIGJ5IHRoZSBwcm9i ZSBzZWdtZW50LiAgVGhpcyBndWFyYW50ZWVzIHRoYXQgdGhlIHNlZ21lbnRz IGZvbGxvd2luZw0KICAgdGhlIHByb2JlIHNlZ21lbnQgd2lsbCBjYXVzZSBh dCBtb3N0IG9uZSBzdXBlcmZsdW91cyBkdXBsaWNhdGUNCiAgIGFja25vd2xl ZGdtZW50Lg0KDQogICBUaGUgVENQIE1VU1QgYmUgdXNpbmcgRmFzdC1SZXRy YW5zbWl0IGFuZCBTQUNLIG9yIG5ldyBSZW5vLCBzdWNoIHRoYXQNCiAgIGlz b2xhdGVkIGxvc3Qgc2VnbWVudHMgd2lsbCBub3JtYWxseSBiZSByZXRyYW5z bWl0dGVkIHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlDQogICBzcHVyaW91cyByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lv biBvZiBhbnkgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBzZWdtZW50cy4NCg0KICAgRHVyaW5nIHRo ZSBwcm9iZSwgYWxsIG9mIHRoZSBub3JtYWwgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb24sIHJl Y292ZXJ5IGFuZCBjb26tDQogICBnZXN0aW9uIGNvbnRyb2wgbWFjaGluZXJ5 IGlzIGluIGVmZmVjdCBleGNlcHQgaWYganVzdCB0aGUgcHJvYmUgZ2FwDQog ICBpcyByZXRyYW5zbWl0dGVkIChhbmQgbm8gb3RoZXIgc2VnbWVudHMpIHRo ZSBub3JtYWwgbXVsdGlwbGljYXRpdmUNCiAgIGN3bmQgcmVkdWN0aW9uIGlz IHN1cHByZXNzZWQuICBJZiBhbnkgb3RoZXIgc2VnbWVudHMgYXJlDQoNCg0K DQpNYXRoaXMsIGV0IGFsICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgW1BhZ2UgNF0NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpJbnRl cm5ldC1EcmFmdCBFeHBpcmVzIEF1ZyAyMDAzICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICBGZWIgMjMsIDIwMDMNCg0KDQogICByZXRyYW5zbWl0dGVk LCBhbGwgbm9ybWFsIGN3bmQgcmVkdWN0aW9ucyBNVVNUIHRha2UgcGxhY2Uu DQoNCiAgIFRoZSBwcm9iZSBpcyBjb21wbGV0ZWQgd2hlbiB0aGUgYWNrbm93 bGVkZ21lbnRzIHNlcXVlbmNlIGFkdmFuY2VzDQogICBwYXN0IHRoZSBwcm9i ZSBnYXAuICBJZiB0aGUgcHJvYmUgZ2FwIHdhcyBub3QgcmV0cmFuc21pdHRl ZCB0aGUgcHJvYmUNCiAgIHdhcyBzdWNjZXNzZnVsLiAgSWYgdGhlIHByb2Jl IGdhcCB3YXMgcmV0cmFuc21pdHRlZCBhbmQgdGhlcmUgd2VyZSBubw0KICAg b3RoZXIgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb25zLCB0aGUgY2FuZGlkYXRlIE1TUyBmYWls ZWQuICBJZiB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGFueQ0KICAgb3RoZXIgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Np b25zIHRoZSBwcm9iZSB3YXMgaW5jb25jbHVzaXZlLg0KDQogICBJZiB0aGUg cHJvYmUgd2FzIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwsIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IE1TUyBpcyB1cGRh dGVkIHRvIHRoZSBjYW5kaa0NCiAgIGRhdGUgTVNTLiAgSWYgY3duZCBhbmQg b3RoZXIgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBzdGF0ZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXJlIGtlcHQgaW4N CiAgIHBhY2tldHMsIHRoZXkgTVVTVCBiZSByZXNjYWxlZCBieSB0aGUgY2hh bmdlIGluIE1TUywgdG8gcHJlc2VydmUgdGhlDQogICBjdXJyZW50IHdpbmRv dyBzaXplIGluIGJ5dGVzLg0KDQogICBJZiB0aGUgcHJvYmUgZmFpbGVkIG9y IHdhcyBpbmNvbmNsdXNpdmUgdGhlIHByb2JlIGNvdW50IGRvd24gaXMgc2V0 DQogICB0byBDT1VOVERPV05fU0NBTEUgdGltZXMgdGhlIHNxdWFyZSBvZiB0 aGUgY3VycmVudCB3aW5kb3cgc2l6ZSBpbg0KICAgcGFja2V0cy4NCg0KICAg SWYgYW4gUkZDMTE5MSBzdHlsZSBJQ01QICJDYW4ndCIgZnJhZ21lbnQgbWVz c2FnZSBpcyByZWNlaXZlZCwgaXQgaXMNCiAgIHVzZWQgdG8gY29tcHV0ZSBh IE1TUyBsaW1pdCBieSBkZWR1Y3RpbmcgdGhlIFRDUC9JUCBoZWFkZXIgc2l6 ZXMNCiAgIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgb3B0aW9ucykgZnJvbSB0aGUgTVRVIHJlcG9y dGVkIGluIHRoZSBJQ01QIG1lc3NhZ2UuICBJZg0KICAgdGhlIE1TUyBsaW1p dCBpcyBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IE1TUyBhbmQgY2FuZGlkYXRlIE1T UywgdGhlIGN1cq0NCiAgIHJlbnQgTVNTIGlzIHVwZGF0ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUg TVNTIGxpbWl0LCBvdGhlcndpc2UgdGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UgaXMNCiAgIGlnbm9y ZWQuICAgSWYgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgTVNTIGlzIHVwZGF0ZWQsIHRoZW4gdGhl IHByb2JlIHN0cmF0ZWd5IGlzDQogICBmb3JjZWQgaW50byB0byBtb25pdG9y IHN0YXRlIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBiZWxvdy4NCg0KNS4gUHJvYmUgc3RyYXRlZ3kN Cg0KICAgVGhlIHByb2JlIHN0cmF0ZWd5IGRlc2NyaWJlZCBoZXJlIGlzIGEg cmVjb21tZW5kZWQgYmFzZWxpbmUgYWxnb60NCiAgIHJpdGhtLiAgSXQgaXMg bm90IHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBmb3JtYWwgc3RhbmRhcmRzIGxhbmd1YWdlIGJl Y2F1c2UgdGhlDQogICBwcm9iZSBzdHJhdGVneSBjYW4gaW5jbHVkZSBoZXVy aXN0aWNzIHRvIGhlbHAgc2VsZWN0IGFuIG9wdGltYWwgTVNTDQogICBmb3Ig YSBnaXZlbiBwYXRoLiAgQXMgYSBjb25zZXF1ZW5jZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBvcHBv cnR1bml0eSBmb3IgZnV0dXJlDQogICBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgdG8gdGhpcyBh bGdvcml0aG1zLg0KDQogICBUaGUgcHJvYmluZyBzdHJhdGVneSBoYXMgdGhy ZWUgbWFqb3Igc3RhdGVzOiBzZWFyY2gsIG1vbml0b3IgYW5kIHN1c60NCiAg IHBlbmQuICBEdXJpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXJjaCBzdGF0ZSwgaXQgc2VxdWVudGlh bGx5IHNlYXJjaGVzIGZvciB0aGUNCiAgIGxhcmdlc3QgTVNTIHRoYXQgdGhl IHBhdGggY2FuIHN1cHBvcnQuICBPbmNlIHRoZSBwYXRoIE1TUyBoYXMgYmVl bg0KICAgZGlzY292ZXJlZCwgdGhlIHByb2JpbmcgYWxnb3JpdGhtIGVudGVy cyB0aGUgbW9uaXRvciBzdGF0ZSB3aGVyZSBpdA0KICAgcHJvYmVzIGluZnJl cXVlbnRseSB0byBkZXRlY3QgaWYgdGhlIHBhdGggTVNTIGhhcyBiZWNvbWUg bGFyZ2VyLiAgSWYNCiAgIHRoZSBNU1MgcHJvYmluZyBwZXJzaXN0ZW50bHkg ZmFpbHMgaXQgbWF5IGJlIGRlc2lyYWJsZSB0byBzdXNwZW5kDQogICBwYXRo IE1TUyBwcm9iaW5nIGFuZCBoZXVyaXN0aWNhbGx5IHNlbGVjdCBvbmUgb2Yg dGhlIGNvbW1vbiBkZWZhdWx0DQogICBNU1NzOiA1NzYsIDEyODAsIG9yIDE1 MDAgQnl0ZXMuDQoNCiAgIFRoZSByZWNvbW1lbmRlZCBzZWFyY2ggc3RyYXRl Z3kgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1waGFzZSBzY2FuOiBGaXJzdCwgYQ0KICAgY29hcnNl IHNjYW4gZm9yIHRoZSBhcHByb3hpbWF0ZSBwYXRoIE1TUyB1c2luZyBmYWN0 b3Igb2YgMiBzdGVwcw0KICAgc3RhcnRpbmcgYXQgMTAyNCBCeXRlcyB1bnRp bCBhIHByb2JlIGZhaWxzLCBmb2xsb3dlZCBieSBzdWNjZXNzaXZlbHkNCiAg IGZpbmVyIHNjYW5zIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIGxhcmdlc3QgcHJldmlvdXNseSBz dWNjZXNzZnVsIGFuZCB1bnN1Y2Nlc3OtDQogICBmdWwgcHJvYmVzLg0KDQoN Cg0KDQpNYXRoaXMsIGV0IGFsICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgW1BhZ2UgNV0NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpJ bnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBFeHBpcmVzIEF1ZyAyMDAzICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBGZWIgMjMsIDIwMDMNCg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgVGFi bGUgMTogUmVjb21tZW5kZWQgTVNTIHNjYW5uaW5nIHNlcXVlbmNlDQogICAg ICAgICAgKENvdXJzZSBzY2FuIGRvd24gY29sdW1uIDEsIGZpbmUgc2NhbiBh Y3Jvc3MgZWFjaCByb3cpDQogICAgICAgICAgNTEyLCBbVXNlIG9ubHkgYWZ0 ZXIgcmVwZWF0ZWQgdGltZW91dHNdDQogICAgICAgICAgMTAyNCwgIDE0OTIs IDIwMDINCiAgICAgICAgICAyMDQ4DQogICAgICAgICAgNDA5NiwgNDM1Mg0K ICAgICAgICAgIDgxOTIsIDkwMDANCiAgICAgICAgICAxNjM4NCwgMTc5MTQN CiAgICAgICAgICAzMjc2OA0KICAgICAgICAgIDY0NTEyDQogICAgICAgICAg KChBZGRpdGlvbmFsIHZhbHVlcyBuZWVkZWQpKQ0KDQogICBEdXJpbmcgdGhl IHNjYW4gaXQgaXMgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgTVNTIG5vdCBiZSBy YWlzZWQgaWYgY3duZA0KICAgaXMgdG9vIHNtYWxsIGFzIGRldGVybWluZWQg YnkgYSBoZXVyaXN0aWMuICBGb3IgdGhlIHRpbWUgYmVpbmcgdGhlDQogICBy ZWNvbW1lbmRlZCBoZXVyaXN0aWMgaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgTVNTIGlzIG9ubHkg cmFpc2VkIHdoZW4gdGhlIGN3bmQgaXMNCiAgIGxhcmdlciB0aGFuIDIwIHNl Z21lbnRzLg0KDQogICBPbmNlIHRoZSBzY2FuIGhhcyBoYXMgZm91bmQgYW4g YXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgTVNTLCB0aGUgcHJvYmUgc3RyYXRlZ3kNCiAgIGVudGVy cyB0aGUgbW9uaXRvciBzdGF0ZSwgd2hlcmUgaXQgcmUtcHJvYmVzIHRoZSBt b3N0IHJlY2VudCBmYWlsZWQNCiAgIE1UVSwgb25jZSBldmVyeSBNT05JVE9S X0lOVEVSVkFMIHNlY29uZHMuICBJZiB0aGUgcHJvYmUgZmFpbHMsIGl0DQog ICByZW1haW5zIGluIHRoZSBtb25pdG9yIHN0YXRlLiAgSWYgaXQgc3VjY2Vl ZHMsIGl0IGVudGVycyB0aGUgc2Nhbm5pbmcNCiAgIHN0YXRlLg0KDQogICBJ ZiB0aGUgbmV0d29yayBiZWNvbWVzIHRvbyBjb25nZXN0ZWQgZHVyaW5nIGVp dGhlciB0aGUgc2NhbiBvciBtb25prQ0KICAgdG9yIHN0YXRlcyBpdCBpcyBy ZWNvbW1lbmRlZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBNU1MgYmUgcmVkdWNlZCB0byBzbWFsbGVy IHNpemUNCiAgIGFzIGRldGVybWluZWQgYnkgYSBoZXVyaXN0aWMuICBUaGUg cmVjb21tZW5kZWQgaGV1cmlzdGljIGlzIHRvIHJlZHVjZQ0KICAgdGhlIE1T UyBpZiBzc3RocmVzaCBpcyByZWR1Y2VkIHRvIDUgc2VnbWVudHMgb3Igc21h bGxlci4gIFRoZSByZWNvba0NCiAgIG1lbmRlZCByZWR1Y3Rpb24gaXMgdG8g dGhlIG5leHQgc21hbGxlciBtYWpvciBNU1Mgc3RlcCBpbiB0YWJsZSAxLg0K DQogICBXaGVuIHRoZXJlIGFyZSByZXBlYXRlZCB0aW1lb3V0cyAoTUFYX1RJ TU8gb3IgbW9yZSByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbnMsDQogICB3L28gYW55IHJlY2Vp dmVkIEFDS3MpLCBpdCBpcyBwcmVzdW1lZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBjb25uZWN0aW9u IHdhcyByZS0NCiAgIHJvdXRlZCBvbnRvIGEgbGluayB3aXRoIGEgc21hbGxl ciBNU1MsIGFuZCB0aGF0IElDTVAgbWVzc2FnZXMgYXJlIG5vdA0KICAgYmVp bmcgZGVsaXZlcmVkLiAgVGhlIE1TUyBwcm9iaW5nIGFsZ29yaXRobXMgaXMg cmVzZXQgYnkgcHVsbGluZyBiYWNrDQogICB0aGUgTVNTIHRvIDEwMjQgQnl0 ZXMsIHJlc2NhbGluZyB0aGUgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBjb250cm9sIHZhcmlhYmxl cyBhbmQNCiAgIHJlZW50ZXJpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXJjaCBzdGF0ZS4NCg0KICAg SWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSB0aW1lb3V0IGFuZCBjd25kIHByaW9yIHRvIHRoZSB0 aW1lb3V0IHdhcyBzbWFsbGVyIHRoYW4NCiAgIDYgcGFja2V0cywgdGhlbiB0 aGUgcHJvYmUgc3RyYXRlZ3kgY2FuIGVudGVyIHRoZSBzdXNwZW5kZWQgcGhh c2UgYW5kDQogICBzZXQgdGhlIE1TUyB0byA1MTIgKDEyODApIEJ5dGVzLiAg VGhpcyBoYXMgdGhlIGVmZmVjdCBvZiByZWR1Y2luZyB0aGUNCiAgIG1pbmlt dW0gZGF0YSByYXRlIHRoYXQgVENQIGNhbiBzdGFibHkgbWFuYWdlLg0KDQo2 LiBTaGFyZWQgc3RhdGUNCg0KICAgVGhlIGNvbW1vbiBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlv bnMgb2YgUkZDMTE5MSBrZWVwIHRoZSBkaXNjb3ZlcmVkIE1UVSBpbiBhDQog ICByb3V0ZSBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgaW4gdGhlIElQIGxheWVyLCBiZWNhdXNlIHRo YXQgaXMgcmVhbGx5IHRoZSBwcm9wZXINCiAgIHBsYWNlIHRvIHByb2Nlc3Mg SUNNUCBtZXNzYWdlcy4gIFBhdGggTVNTIGRpc2NvdmVyeSBjYW4gbW9zdCBl YXNpbHkNCiAgIGJlIGFkZGVkIHRvIGEgY3VycmVudCBwTVRVZCBpbXBsZW1l bnRhdGlvbiBieSBrZWVwaW5nIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlDQogICBzdGF0ZSB2YXJp YWJsZXMgZm9yIE1TUyBwcm9iaW5nIGluIHRoZSBzYW1lIHJvdXRlIHN0cnVj dHVyZS4NCg0KDQoNCk1hdGhpcywgZXQgYWwgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBbUGFnZSA2XQ0KDQoN Cg0KDQoNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IEV4cGlyZXMgQXVnIDIwMDMgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEZlYiAyMywgMjAwMw0KDQoNCiAgIFRo ZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgc3RhdGUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGtlZXAgaW4gdGhlIElQIGxh eWVyIHBlciBwZWVyIGFkZHJlc3M6DQogICBNb3N0IHJlY2VudCBzdWNjZXNz ZnVsIElQIG1lc3NhZ2Ugc2l6ZSAoTVNTK2Z1bGwgVENQL0lQIGhlYWRlciBz aXplKSwNCiAgIG1vc3QgcmVjZW50IGZhaWxlZCBJUCBtZXNzYWdlIHNpemUs IFByb2JlIHN0cmF0ZWd5IHN0YXRlLCBpbmRpY2F0aW9uDQogICBpZiB0aGVy ZSBpcyBjdXJyZW50bHkgYSBwcm9iZSBpbiBwcm9ncmVzcywgYW5kIHRoZSBw cm9iaW5nIFRDUCBjb26tDQogICBuZWN0aW9uLCBpZiBzby4NCg0KICAgVENQ IHNob3VsZCBrZWVwIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgc3RhdGU6IGluZGljYXRpb24g aWYgY3VycmVudGx5IHByb2JpbmcsDQogICBzZXF1ZW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgbW9z dCByZWNlbnQgcHJvYmUgZ2FwLCBUQ1AvSVAgaGVhZGVyIHNpemUuDQoNCiAg IFtbTm90ZSwgd2UgcmVhbGx5IG5lZWQgdG8gdGFrZSBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIHJl bGV2YW50IHBhcnRzIG9mIFJGQzExOTENCiAgIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgdmFyaW91 cyBsZXNzb25zIGxlYXJuZWQgYW5kIGZvbGQgYWxsIG9mIHRoZW0gaW50byBv bmUgbmV3DQogICBkb2N1bWVudF1dDQoNCjcuIFByb2JpbmcgaW50ZXJ2YWxz DQoNCiAgIENPVU5URE9XTl9TQ0FMRSAyIC0gVGhlIHNjYWxlIGZhY3RvciBh cHBsaWVkIHRvIHRoZSB3aW5kb3cgc3F1YXJlZCBpbg0KICAgcGFja2V0cyB0 byBjb21wdXRlIHRoZSB0aGUgc21hbGxlc3QgbnVtYmVyIG9mIG5vbi1wcm9i ZSBwYWNrZXRzDQogICByZXF1aXJlZCBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIG5leHQgcHJvYmUu DQoNCiAgIE1PTklUT1JfSU5URVJWQUwgNjAwIC0gVGhlIGludGVydmFsIGlu IHNlY29uZHMgYmV0d2VlbiBhdHRlbXB0cyB0bw0KICAgcHJvYmUgZm9yIGxh cmdlciBNU1Mgd2hlbiBpbiB0aGUgbW9uaXRvciBzdGF0ZS4NCg0KICAgTUFY X1RJTU8gMiAtIFRoZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgcmVwZWF0ZWQgdGltZW91dHMgbmVl ZGVkIHRvIHRyaWdnZXINCg0KOC4gTm9ybWF0aXZlIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMNCg0K IFtSRkMxMTkxXSAgUGF0aCBNVFUgZGlzY292ZXJ5LiBKLkMuIE1vZ3VsLCBT LkUuIERlZXJpbmcuIE5vdi0wMS0xOTkwLg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgKEZvcm1h dDogVFhUPTQ3OTM2IGJ5dGVzKSAoT2Jzb2xldGVzIFJGQzEwNjMpIChTdGF0 dXM6IERSQUZUDQogICAgICAgICAgICBTVEFOREFSRCkNCg0KIFtSRkMxNDM1 XSAgSUVTRyBBZHZpY2UgZnJvbSBFeHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggUGF0aCBNVFUg RGlzY292ZXJ5LiBTLg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgS25vd2xlcy4gTWFyY2ggMTk5 My4gKEZvcm1hdDogVFhUPTI3MDggYnl0ZXMpIChTdGF0dXM6DQogICAgICAg ICAgICBJTkZPUk1BVElPTkFMKQ0KDQogW1JGQzE5ODFdICBQYXRoIE1UVSBE aXNjb3ZlcnkgZm9yIElQIHZlcnNpb24gNi4gSi4gTWNDYW5uLCBTLiBEZWVy aW5nLA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgSi4gTW9ndWwuIEF1Z3VzdCAxOTk2LiAoRm9y bWF0OiBUWFQ9MzQwODggYnl0ZXMpIChTdGF0dXM6DQogICAgICAgICAgICBQ Uk9QT1NFRCBTVEFOREFSRCkNCg0KIFtSRkMyOTIzXSAgVENQIFByb2JsZW1z IHdpdGggUGF0aCBNVFUgRGlzY292ZXJ5LiBLLiBMYWhleS4gU2VwdGVtYmVy DQogICAgICAgICAgICAyMDAwLiAoRm9ybWF0OiBUWFQ9MzA5NzYgYnl0ZXMp IChTdGF0dXM6IElORk9STUFUSU9OQUwpDQoNCjkuIEluZm9ybWF0aXZlIHJl ZmVyZW5jZXMNCg0KIFtSRkMxMDYzXSAgSVAgTVRVIGRpc2NvdmVyeSBvcHRp b25zLiBKLkMuIE1vZ3VsLCBDLkEuIEtlbnQsIEMuIFBhcq0NCiAgICAgICAg ICAgIHRyaWRnZSwgSy4gTWNDbG9naHJpZS4gSnVsLTAxLTE5ODguIChGb3Jt YXQ6IFRYVD0yNzEyMQ0KICAgICAgICAgICAgYnl0ZXMpIChPYnNvbGV0ZWQg YnkgUkZDMTE5MSkNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpNYXRoaXMsIGV0IGFsICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgW1Bh Z2UgN10NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpJbnRlcm5ldC1EcmFmdCBFeHBpcmVzIEF1ZyAy MDAzICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBGZWIgMjMsIDIwMDMN Cg0KDQogW1JGQzE2MjZdICBEZWZhdWx0IElQIE1UVSBmb3IgdXNlIG92ZXIg QVRNIEFBTDUuIFIuIEF0a2luc29uLiBNYXkgMTk5NC4NCiAgICAgICAgICAg IChGb3JtYXQ6IFRYVD0xMTg0MSBieXRlcykgKE9ic29sZXRlZCBieSBSRkMy MjI1KSAoU3RhdHVzOg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgUFJPUE9TRUQgU1RBTkRBUkQp DQoNCiBbUkZDMTc5MV0gIFRDUCBBbmQgVURQIE92ZXIgSVBYIE5ldHdvcmtz IFdpdGggRml4ZWQgUGF0aCBNVFUuIFQuIFN1bmcuDQogICAgICAgICAgICBB cHJpbCAxOTk1LiAoRm9ybWF0OiBUWFQ9MjIzNDcgYnl0ZXMpIChTdGF0dXM6 IEVYUEVSSU1FTlRBTCkNCg0KMTAuIFNlY3VyaXR5IGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25z DQoNCiAgIFNpbmNlIHRoZSBNVFUgcmVwb3J0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIElDTVAgbWVz c2FnZXMgaXMgY29uc3RyYWluZWQgdG8gYmUNCiAgIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIG9s ZCBNVFUgYW5kIHRoZSBjYW5kaWRhdGUgTVRVLCB0aGlzIGFsZ29yaXRobSBp cyBtb3JlDQogICBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8gYXR0YWNrIHRocm91Z2ggZnJhdWR1 bGVudCBJQ01QIG1lc3NhZ2VkLg0KDQogICBGdXJ0aGVybW9yZSwgc2luY2Ug dGhpcyBhbGdvcml0aG0gY2FuIGZ1bmN0aW9uIHByb3Blcmx5IHdpdGhvdXQg SUNNUA0KICAgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG0g Y2FuIGJlIGRpc2FibGVkIGZvciBhZGRpdGlvbmFsDQogICByb2J1c3RuZXNz IGluIGhvc3RpbGUgZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KDQoxMS4gSUFOQSBjb25zaWRl cmF0aW9ucw0KDQoxMi4gQ29udHJpYnV0b3JzDQoNCjEzLiBBY2tub3dsZWRn ZW1lbnRzDQoNCiAgIE1hdHQgTWF0aGlzIGFuZCBKb2huIEhlZmZuZXIgYXJl IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBieSBhIGdyYW50IGZyb20gQ2lzY28gU3lzrQ0KICAgdGVt cywgSW5jLg0KDQoxNC4gQXV0aG9ycycgYWRkcmVzc2VzDQoNCiAgIFBsZWFz ZSBzZW5kIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyB0byBtdHVAcHNjLmVk dS4NCg0KICAgTWF0dCBNYXRoaXMgYW5kIEpvaG4gSGVmZm5lcg0KICAgUGl0 dHNidXJnaCBTdXBlcmNvbXB1dGluZyBDZW50ZXINCiAgIDQ0MDAgRmlmdGgg QXZlLg0KICAgUGl0dHNidXJnaCwgUEEgMTUyMTMNCiAgIG1hdGhpc0Bwc2Mu ZWR1DQogICBqaGVmZm5lckBwc2MuZWR1DQoNCiAgIEtldmluIExhaGV5DQog ICBGcmVlbGFuY2UNCiAgIGttbEBwYXRoZXRpY2dlZWsubmV0DQoNCjE1LiBJ bnRlbGxlY3R1YWwgUHJvcGVydHkNCg0KICAgVGhlIElFVEYgdGFrZXMgbm8g cG9zaXRpb24gcmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoZSB2YWxpZGl0eSBvciBzY29wZSBvZiBh bnkNCiAgIGludGVsbGVjdHVhbCBwcm9wZXJ0eSBvciBvdGhlciByaWdodHMg dGhhdCBtaWdodCBiZSBjbGFpbWVkIHRvICBwZXKtDQogICB0YWluIHRvIHRo ZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBvciB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgZGVz Y3JpYmVkIGluIHRoaXMNCiAgIGRvY3VtZW50IG9yIHRoZSBleHRlbnQgdG8g d2hpY2ggYW55IGxpY2Vuc2UgdW5kZXIgc3VjaCByaWdodHMgbWlnaHQNCiAg IG9yIG1pZ2h0IG5vdCBiZSBhdmFpbGFibGU7IG5laXRoZXIgZG9lcyBpdCBy ZXByZXNlbnQgdGhhdCBpdCBoYXMgbWFkZQ0KDQoNCg0KTWF0aGlzLCBldCBh bCAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgIFtQYWdlIDhdDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgRXhw aXJlcyBBdWcgMjAwMyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgRmVi IDIzLCAyMDAzDQoNCg0KICAgYW55IGVmZm9ydCB0byBpZGVudGlmeSBhbnkg c3VjaCByaWdodHMuICBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBvbiB0aGUgSUVURidzDQogICBw cm9jZWR1cmVzIHdpdGggcmVzcGVjdCB0byByaWdodHMgaW4gc3RhbmRhcmRz LXRyYWNrIGFuZCBzdGFuZGFyZHMtDQogICByZWxhdGVkIGRvY3VtZW50YXRp b24gY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGluIEJDUC0xMS4gIENvcGllcyBvZiBjbGFpbXMg b2YNCiAgIHJpZ2h0cyBtYWRlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24g YW5kIGFueSBhc3N1cmFuY2VzIG9mIGxpY2Vuc2VzDQogICB0byBiZSBtYWRl IGF2YWlsYWJsZSwgb3IgdGhlIHJlc3VsdCBvZiBhbiBhdHRlbXB0IG1hZGUg dG8gb2J0YWluIGENCiAgIGdlbmVyYWwgbGljZW5zZSBvciBwZXJtaXNzaW9u IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHN1Y2ggcHJvcHJpZXRhcnkgcmlnaHRzDQogICBi eSBpbXBsZW1lbnRlcnMgb3IgdXNlcnMgb2YgdGhpcyBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9u IGNhbiBiZSBvYnRhaW5lZCBmcm9tDQogICB0aGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlh dC4NCg0KICAgVGhlIElFVEYgaW52aXRlcyBhbnkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBwYXJ0 eSB0byBicmluZyB0byBpdHMgYXR0ZW50aW9uIGFueQ0KICAgY29weXJpZ2h0 cywgcGF0ZW50cyBvciBwYXRlbnQgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLCBvciBvdGhlciBw cm9wcmlldGFyeQ0KICAgcmlnaHRzIHdoaWNoIG1heSBjb3ZlciB0ZWNobm9s b2d5IHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHJlcXVpcmVkIHRvIHByYWN0aWNlDQogICB0aGlz IHN0YW5kYXJkLiAgUGxlYXNlIGFkZHJlc3MgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRv IHRoZSBJRVRGIEV4ZWN1dGl2ZQ0KICAgRGlyZWN0b3IuDQoNCg0KMTYuIEZ1 bGwgY29weXJpZ2h0IHN0YXRlbWVudA0KDQogICBDb3B5cmlnaHQgKEMpIFRo ZSBJbnRlcm5ldCBTb2NpZXR5IEZlYiAyMywgMjAwMy4gQWxsIFJpZ2h0cyBS ZXNlcnZlZC4NCg0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBhbmQgdHJhbnNsYXRpb25z IG9mIGl0IG1heSBiZSBjb3BpZWQgYW5kIGZ1cm5pc2hlZCB0bw0KICAgb3Ro ZXJzLCBhbmQgZGVyaXZhdGl2ZSB3b3JrcyB0aGF0IGNvbW1lbnQgb24gb3Ig b3RoZXJ3aXNlIGV4cGxhaW4gaXQNCiAgIG9yIGFzc2lzdCBpbiBpdHMgaW1w bGVtZW50YXRpb24gbWF5IGJlIHByZXBhcmVkLCBjb3BpZWQsIHB1Ymxpc2hl ZA0KICAgYW5kIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCBpbiB3aG9sZSBvciBpbiBwYXJ0LCB3 aXRob3V0IHJlc3RyaWN0aW9uIG9mIGFueQ0KICAga2luZCwgcHJvdmlkZWQg dGhhdCB0aGUgYWJvdmUgY29weXJpZ2h0IG5vdGljZSBhbmQgdGhpcyBwYXJh Z3JhcGggYXJlDQogICBpbmNsdWRlZCBvbiBhbGwgc3VjaCBjb3BpZXMgYW5k IGRlcml2YXRpdmUgd29ya3MuICBIb3dldmVyLCB0aGlzIGRvY60NCiAgIHVt ZW50IGl0c2VsZiBtYXkgbm90IGJlIG1vZGlmaWVkIGluIGFueSB3YXksIHN1 Y2ggYXMgYnkgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlDQogICBjb3B5cmlnaHQgbm90aWNlIG9y IHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgdG8gdGhlIEludGVybmV0IFNvY2lldHkgb3Igb3RoZXIN CiAgIEludGVybmV0IG9yZ2FuaXphdGlvbnMsIGV4Y2VwdCBhcyBuZWVkZWQg Zm9yIHRoZSAgcHVycG9zZSBvZiBkZXZlbG9wrQ0KICAgaW5nIEludGVybmV0 IHN0YW5kYXJkcyBpbiB3aGljaCBjYXNlIHRoZSBwcm9jZWR1cmVzIGZvciBj b3B5cmlnaHRzDQogICBkZWZpbmVkIGluIHRoZSBJbnRlcm5ldCBTdGFuZGFy ZHMgcHJvY2VzcyBtdXN0IGJlIGZvbGxvd2VkLCBvciBhcw0KICAgcmVxdWly ZWQgdG8gdHJhbnNsYXRlIGl0IGludG8gbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIG90aGVyIHRoYW4g RW5nbGlzaC4NCg0KICAgVGhlIGxpbWl0ZWQgcGVybWlzc2lvbnMgZ3JhbnRl ZCBhYm92ZSBhcmUgcGVycGV0dWFsIGFuZCB3aWxsIG5vdCBiZQ0KICAgcmV2 b2tlZCBieSB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQgU29jaWV0eSBvciBpdHMgc3VjY2Vzc29y cyBvciBhc3NpZ25zLg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQpNYXRoaXMsIGV0IGFsICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgW1BhZ2UgOV0NCg0KDQo= ---1233087171-971306938-1046055408=:9905-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Feb 24 08:51:04 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1ODp4eY025074 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1ODoFFv013332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:50:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1ODoFfa013331 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:50:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3a-134.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.185.134]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1ODoEFu013326 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1ODnp410613; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:49:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:49:50 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: agenda@ietf.org cc: Allison Mankin , Scott Bradner , Subject: BoF request, TSV area Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 Please schedule a BoF per the descrition below. Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- Packetization Layer Path MTU Discovery Description This BOF is to introduce a new "Packetization Layer Path MTU Discovery Algorithm" and discuss IETF venues that might be used to complete the work. This new algorithm does not rely on ICMP or other messages from the network (so it is not subject to the problems described in RFC2923). Instead it finds the proper MTU by starting with relatively small packets and searching upwards by probing with test packets. Key portions of the algorithm need to be implemented in the transport layer. In particular any lost probes should not be treated as congestion signals. For this reason, it can be argued that this work belongs in the TSV area. Many of the unresolved design issues pertain to the efficient use of shared state between concurrent and successive connections to the same destination. The complexities of the this aspect of the algorithm are due to the huge technological breadth and subtleties of the delivery semantics associated with the network and lower layers. For this reason, it can be argued that this work belongs in the INT area. The ID draft-mathis-plpmtud-00.txt describes a preliminary version of the algorithm. You can join the list be sending a note to majordomo@psc.edu with "subscribe mtu" or "subscribe mtu " in the body. The list itself is mtu@psc.edu. The webpage at http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/MTU/ describes two independent prototype implementations and other related work. Agenda: Background (40 Minutes total) - Quick overview of the problem - Quick overview of the work-to-date - Inventory technologies harmed by RFC1191 problems. - Quick introduction to open issues How can we best complete the work? (20 Minutes) - Is this issue currently relevant to the IETF? - Is this work tractable within IETF? - How do we consider the operational impact? - How do we consider deployment stratiegies? IESG contacts: Allison Mankin Scott Bradner Thomas Narten Erik Nordmark Key participants: Matt Mathis , John Heffner , Kevin Lahey , Peter O'Neil , Fred Templin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Feb 24 13:26:00 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIQ0eY026262 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIOkFv016881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1OIOkOr016880 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from tesla.psc.edu (tesla.psc.edu [128.182.61.233]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIOiFv016874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from tesla.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIOaKu015338; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id h1OIOa7p015335; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: tesla.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:35 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Allison Mankin cc: Scott Bradner , Subject: Re: Form for agenda requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 I take it that this form is going to be added to 1bof-procedures.txt Thanks, --MM-- On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Allison Mankin wrote: > Dinara will ask you to fill this in, so maybe you should > do it now before she asks :) > > > a. Working Group or BOF full name with acronym in brackets: Packetization Layer Path MTU Discovery [PLPMTUD] > > b. AREA under which Working Group or BOF appears: Transport > > c. CONFLICTS you wish to avoid, please be as specific as possible: Important to avoid due to known overlap: Transport: pilc, ddcp, rddp, sigtran, tsvwg Security: ipsec Likely to have overlap but not specifically known: Internet: mobileip, nemo, IP over * (ipcdn, ipoib, iporpr) Operations area: Sub-IP: ipo, ppvpn Transport: ips, pwe3 > > d. Expected Attendance (figures from the 55th IETF are at the end I am guessing 100, but it could easily draw more > > of this message): > > e. Special requests (i.e. multicast): none > > f. Number of slots: 1 > > g. Length of slot: 2 hours ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Feb 24 13:31:56 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIVueY026287 for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:31:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIVUFv016992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1OIVUmT016991 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:31:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from psg.com ([IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1OIVSFv016985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=psg.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18nNNv-0003LK-00; Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:31:27 -0800 To: Matt Mathis cc: Scott Bradner , mtu@psc.edu Subject: Re: Form for agenda requests In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Mathis of "Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:35 EST." Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:31:27 -0800 From: Allison Mankin Message-Id: Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 WG requests require it too, and a mailing goes out to the wgchairs list, but obviously we could do better about making it known for those not on that list...bof proposers get there after they have made their request :) You can make a suggestion to ietf-action@ietf.org and I will make a pointed one as well. Allison ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Feb 27 18:33:33 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1RNXXE7022234 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1RNWDWt012148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1RNWDN6012147 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from tesla.psc.edu (tesla.psc.edu [128.182.61.233]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1RNWCWt012143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from tesla.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1RNWBEi012823; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by tesla.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id h1RNWBYO012820; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: tesla.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:32:11 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Bill Sommerfeld cc: Subject: Re: comments on plpmtud-00.txt.. In-Reply-To: <200302262346.h1QNkYaj017857@thunk.east.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > I just quickly skimmed the draft. > > A couple comments: > > - Yay! PMTU is way too broken as deployed (because too many "all > ICMP is evil" firewalls in the as-built internet). I hope you can help us fix it. > - the "probe gap" approach is clever (letting the hole left by a bad > candidate be filled by a single packet): > > After a probe segment has been sent (of size candidate MSS), the > subsequent segment(s) MUST be sent as though the probe segment was > not oversized. Thus if the probe segment is lost, it will leave a > hole that is exactly one current MSS. We refer to this potential > hole as the probe gap. > > but.. I may be mistaken, but I'd worry that this significantly > increases the frequency of overlapping tcp segments "in the wild". > I'd worry that excessively paranoid firewalls or intrusion > detection systems might be annoyed by this and possibly clobber the > connection.. This scares me - Are there firewalls that nail connections just due to duplicate data? After all, every loss that is after the firewall causes dup data. For protocols like X that turn off nagle, partially overlapped dup data is likely te be the norm (I suspect even when tunneled through ssh, tls, etc). Also it turns out that for some stacks it is much easier to leave the probe gap at one probe mss, and the retransmit more than 1 segment if it was lost (no duplicate data then). The current language is mor restrictive than it needs to be. > > - RFC2401 (IP security architecture) also has some comments about MTU > discovery interaction with IPsec. Thanks, I'll look it up > > - a minor tweak (ignoring "frag needed" requests which clearly > conflict with (authenticated) acks) may well make this algorithm > potentially more resiliant to denial-of-service attacks from forged > "frag needed" messages, which typically can't be authenticated > because they come from random routers along the path. Yea, there is a bunch of this sort of stuff that needs to go in. > > - the 1024/1492/2002 scanning sequence might want to include more > steps just under 1492 to allow for various forms of > foo-inside-ethernet tunneling (IPsec, IPIP, PPPoE, etc.) Yes. One question: is it more useful to enumerate all likely (combinations of) tunnel header sizes, or would it be better to pick a standard increment (e.g. 16 bytes)? Do you want to scan up or down? e.g 1492, 1428, 1444, 1460, 1476 or 1492, 1476, 1460, 1444, 1428 > - in the "state the obvious because some people will get it wrong" > department, the sender shouldn't bother attempting to probe higher > than the MTU/MSS allowed by the outgoing interface.. ;-) Yep. > NIT: > > "MAX_TIMO 2 - The number of repeated timeouts needed to trigger" > > trigger what? Ooops. Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Feb 27 19:16:54 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0GsE7022441 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0FxWt012602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1S0FxN7012601 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:15:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web80102.mail.yahoo.com (web80102.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.75]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h1S0FwWs012593 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:15:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20030228001557.54365.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.226.2.67] by web80102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:15:57 PST Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:15:57 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: comments on plpmtud-00.txt.. To: mtu@psc.edu, Bill Sommerfeld Cc: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Matt, --- Matt Mathis wrote: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > > - the 1024/1492/2002 scanning sequence might want to include more > > steps just under 1492 to allow for various forms of > > foo-inside-ethernet tunneling (IPsec, IPIP, PPPoE, etc.) > > Yes. One question: is it more useful to enumerate all likely (combinations of) > tunnel header sizes, or would it be better to pick a standard increment (e.g. > 16 bytes)? Do you want to scan up or down? e.g 1492, 1428, 1444, 1460, 1476 or > 1492, 1476, 1460, 1444, 1428 My gut tells me that avoidable loss is bad and that scanning up in fine scan mode is safest. Fred Templin osprey67@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Feb 27 19:18:00 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0I0E7022450 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:18:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0G0Wt012603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1S0FxIe012600 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:15:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web80102.mail.yahoo.com (web80102.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.75]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h1S0FwWs012592 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:15:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20030228001557.54365.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.226.2.67] by web80102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:15:57 PST Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:15:57 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: comments on plpmtud-00.txt.. To: mtu@psc.edu, Bill Sommerfeld Cc: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Matt, --- Matt Mathis wrote: > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > > - the 1024/1492/2002 scanning sequence might want to include more > > steps just under 1492 to allow for various forms of > > foo-inside-ethernet tunneling (IPsec, IPIP, PPPoE, etc.) > > Yes. One question: is it more useful to enumerate all likely (combinations of) > tunnel header sizes, or would it be better to pick a standard increment (e.g. > 16 bytes)? Do you want to scan up or down? e.g 1492, 1428, 1444, 1460, 1476 or > 1492, 1476, 1460, 1444, 1428 My gut tells me that avoidable loss is bad and that scanning up in fine scan mode is safest. Fred Templin osprey67@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Feb 27 19:23:57 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0NvE7022458 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0NGWt012681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1S0NG0S012680 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web80101.mail.yahoo.com (web80101.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.74]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h1S0NFWs012672 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20030228002315.87273.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.226.2.67] by web80101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:23:15 PST Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:23:15 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: comments on plpmtud-00.txt.. To: mtu@psc.edu, Bill Sommerfeld Cc: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: <20030228001557.54365.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 --- Fred Templin wrote: > My gut tells me that avoidable loss is bad and that scanning up in > fine scan mode is safest. But then again, duplicate acks may be worse. So, I guess there's an arguement for scanning down. Perhaps I've answered out of turn, and maybe Bill knows better? Fred ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Feb 27 19:24:41 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0OfE7022467 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:24:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1S0NKWt012684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id h1S0NJ8j012683 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web80101.mail.yahoo.com (web80101.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.74]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h1S0NFWs012673 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:23:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20030228002315.87273.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.226.2.67] by web80101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:23:15 PST Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:23:15 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Re: comments on plpmtud-00.txt.. To: mtu@psc.edu, Bill Sommerfeld Cc: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: <20030228001557.54365.qmail@web80102.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 --- Fred Templin wrote: > My gut tells me that avoidable loss is bad and that scanning up in > fine scan mode is safest. But then again, duplicate acks may be worse. So, I guess there's an arguement for scanning down. Perhaps I've answered out of turn, and maybe Bill knows better? Fred ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Thu Mar 20 05:04:51 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2KA4prG009815 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2KA48Fu000597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2KA48HQ000596 for mtu-outgoing; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (wl-131-109.wireless.ietf56.ietf.org [130.129.131.109]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2KA46Ft000592 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2KA45W29926 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 05:04:05 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: mtu@psc.edu Subject: Slides for the IETF PLPMTUD BOF Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Not quite final: http://www.psc.edu/~mathis/papers/mtuBOF200303/ If they are updated, the URL will not change. (4:30 Imperial B, near the IETF registration) Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Fri Mar 21 13:26:43 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2LIQg5M020134 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:26:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2LIQ372022027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2LIQ3FE022026 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:26:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from web80101.mail.yahoo.com (web80101.mail.yahoo.com [66.163.169.74]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with SMTP id h2LIQ271022022 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:26:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20030321182602.97523.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.226.2.67] by web80101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:26:02 PST Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Templin Subject: Implications of PLPMTUD for layer-2 devices To: mtu@psc.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 One noteable aspect of RFC 1191 MTU discovery is that layer-2 devices that bridge media with dissimilar MTUs break the protocol unless they are modified to generate ICMP messages for IP packets that are too big. Back in the late 80's, this was a hot topic for Ethernet/FDDI bridges. At that time, the concept of a "transluscent" (vs. "transparent") bridge was introduced, but folks decided that a bridge that fooled around with the IP layer was really no different from a router and the market for such devices never emerged. Now, it seems that the packetization layer path MTU discovery (PLPMTUD) scheme briefed by Matt Mathis yesterday should work fine over transparent bridges that connect media with dissimilar MTUs. This is not to say that a new market for bridges will spring up; just that PLPMTUD seems to have the potential to place an option back on the table that has been dormant for over a decade, and options are a good thing. Comments? Fred Templin osprey67@yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Fri Mar 21 18:36:02 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2LNa25M021741 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:36:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2LNZS72026614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2LNZSMB026613 for mtu-outgoing; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:35:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from seka.erols.net (seka.erols.net [207.96.1.96]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2LNZR71026609 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:35:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from lords.seka.erols.net (sfpo-ubr16.sfrn-sfpo.ca.cable.rcn.net [208.59.211.25]) by seka.erols.net (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id h2LNZPo23562 for ; Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:35:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20030321182031.03755888@seka.erols.net> X-Sender: enger@seka.erols.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:35:19 -0500 To: mtu@psc.edu From: "Robert M. Enger" Subject: Re: Implications of PLPMTUD for layer-2 devices In-Reply-To: <20030321182602.97523.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 If there are any of the old bridging boxes left, I hope they obey the DF request. At 10:26 AM 3/21/2003 -0800, Fred Templin wrote: >One noteable aspect of RFC 1191 MTU discovery is that layer-2 >devices that bridge media with dissimilar MTUs break the protocol >unless they are modified to generate ICMP messages for IP packets >that are too big. Back in the late 80's, this was a hot topic for >Ethernet/FDDI bridges. At that time, the concept of a "transluscent" >(vs. "transparent") bridge was introduced, but folks decided that a >bridge that fooled around with the IP layer was really no different >from a router and the market for such devices never emerged. > >Now, it seems that the packetization layer path MTU discovery (PLPMTUD) >scheme briefed by Matt Mathis yesterday should work fine over transparent >bridges that connect media with dissimilar MTUs. This is not to say that >a new market for bridges will spring up; just that PLPMTUD seems to have >the potential to place an option back on the table that has been dormant >for over a decade, and options are a good thing. > >Comments? > >Fred Templin >osprey67@yahoo.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. >Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. >For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu ====================== Robert M. Enger enger@seka.erols.net Work: +1.703.208.5555 Cell: +1.202.256.2222 PGP Key ID: 0x5A815C1F ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Sun Mar 30 23:13:36 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2V4Da4D002557 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:13:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2V4Cwwl002133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2V4Cwqt002132 for mtu-outgoing; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:12:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from zippy.psc.edu (pa-monroeville3b-20.pit.adelphia.net [24.53.186.20]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2V4Cwwk002128 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:12:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (mathis@localhost) by zippy.psc.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2V4CeY18602; Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:12:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.psc.edu: mathis owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:12:40 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Mathis To: Allison Mankin , Jon Peterson cc: mtu@psc.edu Subject: process question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 If we agree on a name, can we spin up the IETF mailing list in advance of the charter? The current list (mtu@psc.edu) has too much non-IETF agenda, and isn't really properly archived (it is embedded in my own personal mail archive.) There is consensus that the name "plpmtud" is too awkward. So far the useful suggestions are: MTUDISC - The name used to draft 1191 (This could technically be spun as a WG reactivation) PMTUD. MTUD, MTU - [path] MTU [discovery] ROMP - RObust MTU Probing These are ranked by my preference, which is specificly NOT consensus. Does anybody out there want to chime in? Thanks, --MM-- ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis http://www.psc.edu/~mathis Work:412.268.3319 Home/Cell:412.654.7529 ------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Mar 31 09:00:38 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VE0c7I007369 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VDxnJN009020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2VDxnBZ009019 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:59:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from emroute2.cind.ornl.gov (emroute2.cind.ornl.gov [160.91.86.17]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VDxmJM009015 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from emroute2.cind.ornl.gov (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by emroute2.cind.ornl.gov (PMDF V6.2 #30669) with ESMTP id <0HCM00BSM9FQWT@emroute2.cind.ornl.gov> for mtu@psc.edu; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from email.cind.ornl.gov (email.cind.ornl.gov [160.91.4.92]) by emroute2.cind.ornl.gov (PMDF V6.2 #30669) with ESMTPS id <0HCM00LI69EGS4@emroute2.cind.ornl.gov>; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:56:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from email.cind.ornl.gov (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by email.cind.ornl.gov (PMDF V6.2 #30669) with ESMTP id <0HCM006439EAY3@email.cind.ornl.gov>; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:56:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.219.176.71] (tcp71.ens.ornl.gov [128.219.176.71]) by email.cind.ornl.gov (PMDF V6.2 #30669) with ESMTPA id <0HCM0082O9E66K@email.cind.ornl.gov>; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:56:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:56:40 -0500 From: "W. R. Wing" Subject: Re: process question In-reply-to: To: mtu@psc.edu Cc: Allison Mankin , Jon Peterson , mtu@psc.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 At 11:12 PM -0500 3/30/03, Matt Mathis wrote: [byte] > >So far the useful suggestions are: >MTUDISC - The name used to draft 1191 > (This could technically be spun as a WG reactivation) >PMTUD. MTUD, MTU - [path] MTU [discovery] >ROMP - RObust MTU Probing > >These are ranked by my preference, which is specificly NOT consensus. >Does anybody out there want to chime in? > [byte] Personally I prefer the first for a mailing list, and the third for a utility that would (someday) implement the final RFQ. Bill -- /~\ The ASCII | William R. Wing wrw@ornl.gov 865-574-8839 \ / Ribbon Campaign | Network Architect, Oak Ridge National Laboratory X Against HTML | Network Research Group, Computer Sci & Math Div. / \ Email |___ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu From owner-mtu@psc.edu Mon Mar 31 09:38:39 2003 Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (mailer1.psc.edu [IPv6:2001:468:201:ffff:250:daff:fed6:7c06] (may be forged)) by dexter.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VEcd7I007570 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailer1.psc.edu (localhost.psc.edu [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VEcDJN009557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h2VEcDQL009556 for mtu-outgoing; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mailer1.psc.edu: majordom set sender to owner-mtu@psc.edu using -f Received: from basie.internet2.edu (basie.internet2.edu [207.75.164.22]) by mailer1.psc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2VEcCJM009548 for ; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28607B4A1; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from INTERNET-YRVM4Z.internet2.edu (dialup5527.wnskvtao.sover.net [216.114.181.194]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130FA7B48F; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030331073804.01f124f8@mail.internet2.edu> X-Sender: epl@mail.internet2.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:38:51 -0700 To: mtu@psc.edu From: E Paul Love Subject: Re: process question Cc: Allison Mankin , Jon Peterson In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-mtu@psc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mtu@psc.edu List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Concur Paul At 08:56 AM 3/31/2003 -0500, W. R. Wing wrote: >At 11:12 PM -0500 3/30/03, Matt Mathis wrote: > >[byte] > >> >>So far the useful suggestions are: >>MTUDISC - The name used to draft 1191 >> (This could technically be spun as a WG reactivation) >>PMTUD. MTUD, MTU - [path] MTU [discovery] >>ROMP - RObust MTU Probing >> >>These are ranked by my preference, which is specificly NOT consensus. >>Does anybody out there want to chime in? >[byte] > >Personally I prefer the first for a mailing list, and the third for a >utility that would (someday) implement the final RFQ. > > Bill > >-- > > /~\ The ASCII | William R. Wing wrw@ornl.gov 865-574-8839 > \ / Ribbon Campaign | Network Architect, Oak Ridge National Laboratory > X Against HTML | Network Research Group, Computer Sci & Math Div. > / \ Email |___ >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. >Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. >For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to mtu@psc.edu. Send questions about this list to: mtu-owner@psc.edu. For help using this service, send a blank message to: majordomo@psc.edu